Knowing what problems you are solving for your clients and giving them the highest service level allows you to discover opportunities to negotiate more successfully. Today’s guest, Che Brown, helps entrepreneurs maximize their sales by offering some of the world’s best sales training programs at Sales Team Guru. Che is the Founder of The Happy Entrepreneur Network and the host of the Happy Entrepreneur Show. Listen as he joins Christine McKay in a conversation that explores the intersections between sales and negotiation and teaches us how to be even better in both. Whether you’re a business owner who still hates selling or someone convinced that selling is essential but doesn’t know how to proceed, you’re going to walk away with one or a dozen ideas you can implement today! Think you’ve heard it all? Not the remix, you haven’t.
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Sales & Negotiation: Navigating the Intersection with Che Brown
It is so great to have you join us again on the show, where we work to show you, as small business owners, different ways of negotiating so that you have more effective, even more, successful negotiation every time you’re at the table. I am excited to have Mr. Che Brown on with us. He is a sales guru, and I am excited because we haven’t had somebody from sales on the show yet. A lot of times, when I talk about negotiation, people who have long histories and sales say to me, “It’s just sales.” Negotiation is part of sales, and it’s more than that. I wanted to have Che on because he’s been doing sales training for many years. Che, welcome. I’m so glad to have you. Thank you very much. Tell us a little bit about you. I’m going to let you dive in and tell us who you are.
First, let me just say thank you so much, Christine, for having me here. Thank all the readers for reading. My promise to you is that this would be a good use of your time. You’ll walk away with one idea that you can use to either build your sales team or use sales to generate revenue to execute the resources you need to execute the vision you have for the people you were called to serve. That’s number one, number two, Christine, I want to acknowledge you for having this particular platform that allow folks not only to read but to share their expertise so we all can make our communities better and make this country a much better place and ultimately, the world a better place.
Thank you so much. I know the question was like, “Who is Che Brown?” The reality is, I don’t know. I now have my AARP card. You would think, I know who I am, but I do know this much. I know I’m a son because I have a mother who I love. She’s still here. My dad is no longer with us. He passed away on May 2nd, 2017. I know my brother because I have one brother and I have two sisters. I know I’m that. I also happen to be a dad, by the way. I have two adult kids. I guess you never stopped being a dad. No matter how old they get, you’re always a dad. I’m working hard to be the number one husband in the world. No offense to all my friends and colleagues, but I’m on my third marriage. I’m loving life in the last few months.
I’m trying to make every day, like the first day when I was chasing her because she was like, “You’re not really my type,” but I’m like, “No. We can.” I told her, “Give me time and I’ll work.” I’m happy but I’m still trying to figure out who I am, but I will close with this and say that right now, in this conversation, I’m a business owner. I’m an entrepreneur for many years, all the time, full-time. What we do as “Sales Team Guru,” at the end of the day, we help entrepreneurs generate revenue using the sales team. I always say I have the toughest job in the world. I had the toughest prospects in the world, the entrepreneurs, speakers, office, coaches, trainers, service-based businesses and brick and mortar businesses. I’ve got to work with these prospects and I try to help them understand they need sales to stay at business.
I know it’s crazy, and it’s an oxymoron, but you won’t believe how many folks are like, “I want to do all the sales myself. I want to be the number one salesperson, marketing person, negotiator, admin, project manager and tech. I want to be number one on everything.” I’m like, “You can’t be great at everything.” You can be good and wonderful at a lot of things, but it’s hard to be great at everything. I have a hard time convincing them to let it go. That’s who I am. I am good at helping people build sales teams and make money. I’m excited to be here, Christine. I know that’s a long-winded answer, but I’m not that person you see on paper or whatever you’re reading now. I’m excited.
I appreciate that. Thank you for sharing. I have three adult children and I’ve had my AARP card for a very long time.
I’m loving it, though. I’m proud to have it. When I told my son the good news, I got it, he says, “Dad, you’ve got to stop talking about the 1900s. That’s like so long ago.” I’m like, “No, it wasn’t that long ago, son. The 1900s was not that long. I was in high school. It wasn’t that long. I was in college. It wasn’t that long ago.” “No, dad, stop saying 1900s. Just say 2021. Don’t say 19 anything, okay?” I’m trying to be cool at the same time. It’s not working.
One of the things that I am excited about and one of the things that I talk about when I talk about negotiation is how we show up for negotiation. The negotiation that we have in between our ears is the hardest part of any negotiation. For small business owners and for your clients, especially if they’re negotiating with a larger organization. Talk a little bit about some of the things that you have seen to be very effective for some of your clients as they move up into the market and start figuring out how to play in the bigger ponds.
When we talk about bigger ponds, it means different things and folks. For some folks, the bigger pond is a 2, 3-year, multi-year contract. For others that are a speaker, an author, coach, trainer or network marketer, it’s selling that first high-ticket program that’s $25,000. For others, it’s starting into a collaboration, a power relationship where they’re working hand in hand with someone. Negotiation is a whole lot of things, so I agree with you 100%. Sales and negotiation go together like peanut butter and jelly. Let me debunk two myths if I can and then I’ll answer your question.
Your words will make you rich. Share on XThe first myth is some people might say, “I don’t need negotiation and I don’t need sales because I don’t see myself in sales.” I want you to know this. I want you to know from this view of the world, that if you think about it, everyone is always selling and negotiating something. If you are a minister, you’re selling faith every single week or you’re negotiating how you sell faith every single week. If you are a school teacher, you’re selling education every single day or you’re negotiating how you’re selling education in the process.
If you’re a parent, we talked about being parents. You said you have three adults. I have two adults, but I don’t know if they would become adults. I guess they’re adults on paper. They’re more expensive the older they get. McDonald’s seems freaking cool now. We can take them to McDonald’s and it was over. It’s not like that. They want a credit card with money on it. If you’re a parent, you’re negotiating values. You’re selling values every single day. No matter who you are, the biggest negotiation you have every single day, the biggest sale you make every single day is to yourself. You negotiate with yourself.
There are 1,440 minutes in every day and you’re negotiating what you’re going to do with every single one of those minutes. It talks about what it means from a corporate perspective, let me frame the conversation. The same techniques needed that you can negotiate with yourself, listen to yourself, and understand what your priorities are, understanding what your philosophy is, understanding what your methodology is, is the same type of skills I believe you need when you’re negotiating a big deal. That same person that you are with yourself is how you’re reflecting on the outside.
Sometimes there’s truth in truisms that we’ll often be doing more for others than we’ll do for ourselves. When you go to negotiate a big deal, you’re someone different. Another character comes out, that pseudo part. If you’re Beyoncé, she has her own pseudo part. You had that own character. I get that but there are three skills that are very important. Let me answer your question now. I wanted to give you a little bit of the backstory so we understand that we’re all negotiating every day. You’re negotiating right now, “Do you continue to read this or do you turn this off? Do I take notes? Do I give it more of my time?”
There are three skills that you need. The first skill that is very important is helping the other person get what they want. Zig Ziglar said, “You can help everybody in life. You have everything you want in life, you help everybody else get what they want in life.” I’m part of the Puff Daddy generation. We have the remixed version, all of us AARP card. The remixed version is to make sure you know what they want, and you will help them get what they want. If you don’t even know what they want and you don’t even go to help them, it’s hard to start the negotiations. I think no one’s got to know exactly what it is they want and how I can help them get what they want. Let’s start with, “What do I want?” That’s number one.
Number two and I know they’re going to say communication is the thing and listening is the thing, but you’ve got to be very cognizant of the words you’re going to use in the conversation. I have this thing around neuro-linguistic sales, which is a study of language patterns and how it impacts the sales process. What I’ll say the words you’re going to use because they got interpreted what you’re saying. You’ve got to listen, but how you communicate what you say when you say it, how you say it, your tonality to me, that’s important. Let me jot this down in your notes. This might be a golden nugget for you. I know there are many golden nuggets. This is so important, “Your words will make you rich.”
I’m glad you’re writing that down or typing it. When she said, “Che, when you go after bigger deals, what does it take? Do I have to put on a different suit? Do I have to have a better camera?” If we’re doing it virtually like, “Do I have to have to power those fiber-optic lines or do I need a cool mic?” No. What you say when you say it and how you say it because the meaning of the words will be interpreted by the other person. That’s the key. For any business owner, that’s the key to making sure the negotiation goes the way you wanted to go and they wanted to go. I get the win-win thing, but sometimes you’re putting it in writing and that’s important. A number of my clients now are sending videos.
We did this whole thing where they record a video on their phone and they’re sending video messages. Why? It’s because someone’s more likely to watch a 3 to a 5-minute video message than they are to open your email. It’s not how you look, but what you say goes a long way. They hear you, they see your face and your reaction. They see you talking. They’re like, “Is what you’re saying communicating with your body language?” That’s why you need someone like Venn Negotiation because there’s much more than I can get into. They get into body language, what you say, how you say it and how you communicate. The two skills I’m giving you so far is the number one skill is know what they want, but more importantly, here’s the second part, “How could I help them get it?”
One of the things that I talk a lot about is it’s very easy for us when we’re negotiating to know what it is that we want and while we think it is. Generally, what most people do is they think at a very high level and they don’t think about what are all the possibilities because those possibilities matter to your counterpart. What are all the options of whatever it is that you might be negotiating and then how important are those different options to you? How do they relate to your counterpart? Are they doable for your counterpart? Are the things that your counterpart wants different from what you want in the negotiation?
Those things that drive your trade-offs. When negotiating, you want to be giving away the things that are unimportant to you but that are important to your counterpart. You want to understand what those things are because that’s where the negotiation occurs and where there’s a success. People who’ve read before, I’m not a huge fan of win-win. I was very fortunate. I got to go to Harvard University. I was taught by the professors who wrote Getting to Yes and Getting Past No and all that. Usually, at the table, somebody wins a little bit more than somebody else.
If you believe in the concept of the customer for a lifetime, then negotiation, as many of you already know for me, is nothing more than a conversation about a relationship. There is no win in a relationship. Over time, we need to go back and forth in those relationships to make sure that we’re renegotiating as we move forward. Otherwise, we lose the opportunity to have a longer-term valuable relationship and create value over time. I agree 100% with what you’re saying, Che. Often, so many people, when they’re negotiating, do not spend enough time understanding what their counterpart needs in order to be successful and then figuring out, “How do I get back to them?” If you can make your counterparts successful, you’re going to be successful at the same time.
That leads to the point of a client that I was working with that didn’t see themselves in sales or see themselves negotiating. To your part of what you said, one of our core philosophies and I believe in principles, by the way. You stand on your principles. They help hold your philosophies together. One of the principles is this one concept called Selling Equals Service. Negotiation also can equal service as well. I gave you the first one, it was, “Know what they want. How are you going to help them?” I gave you the second one. I said, “I’ve got to be able to communicate what I’m saying to them.”
The third one and the underpinning line is selling equals service. I am working with someone and she’s a financial planner. She’s negotiating deals and trying to help people move money around and so forth. She hated sales. “I hate to even negotiate because sometimes they didn’t want to move the whole 401(k). They wouldn’t move all the mutual funds.” In financial planning, the 32nd versions, sometimes someone would give you what we call, reduce the risk. That means they’ll go in and give you a little bit of something over here and how that works out, why they keep money over here.
She hated negotiating because she’s only going to get so much but she’s trying to get the whole ball of wax. I said, “You don’t hate sales.” She is like, “I hate selling. I got to convince them.” No, selling is not about convincing anyone to do anything. Selling equals service. I gave her this one concept and it changed the trajectory of her business. I said, “Selling is about three things and you can wrap negotiation as part of this.” This helped her and I want to help you create a breakthrough because you’re like, “I don’t even want to do selling because you’ve always got to give and take. It’s too much.”
No. Selling equals service. Selling is about three things. Number one, selling is about education. I said, “Can you educate the folks you’re working with?” You just said and so do you, Christine, that there are other options that are available. If there’s a problem on the planet and there are some other options. She’s like, “I like that. I’m pretty good.” Selling, number two, is about leading. Can you at least say, “If you take a step, here is the opposite that I can provide you with right away and this will help you?” “I can do that, Che.”
Third, selling is about moving people to action. Ask them, “Will you do it?” In your negotiation, let’s educate, then we recognize there’s a problem. Let’s talk about, as you said, the option, selling is about leading. Here are all the options and then saying, “How would you like to take a step to option 1, 2 or 3.” Maybe that’s going to help you create a breakthrough that you don’t go to the table. As you said, “I want to win. I’ll get them to a yes.” You go to the table saying, “How can I serve?” That created a breakthrough for her.
For me, even when I’m working with companies because oftentimes, I’m not the main sales team. They’ve got Sandler over here and they’ve got Dale Carnegie here. They’ve got all these other bigger programs. In the negotiation, I’m focusing on, how can I outserve other folks? How can I get in the lane? How can I get my foot in the door? They see bigger deals because they’ve already got contracts. They’ve got folks coming in. Maybe when you’re negotiating, what I determined was they might be like my son. Let me give you a brief story. My son, he was playing when he was in high school. He came home one day.
He was sixteen years old and said, “Dad, guess what?” I said, “What?” He said, “The football coach said, if I get good grades in school, well on the SATs, I can go whatever college I want to.” I said, “That sounds pretty cool. I’ve been saying that, I don’t know for fifteen years now.” It’s like, “No, dad. You don’t get it. He’s the football coach. This guy knows what he’s talking about.” Maybe in your negotiation, that’s it, they’ve heard all the noise, and now you’ve got to come in, and you’ve got to be the person that they say, “This guy gets it. This woman gets it.” That’s so important. That’s why you want to go in to serve.
Selling equals service. Share on XWhenever I’m serving and giving something of value or giving them something early on, I would tell people, “Put your best stuff up front in negotiations.” That might not be all cases but if you’re open and honest, “Here’s the best I can and let’s work from there.” Why is that? My other philosophy is the 70/30 Rule. You heard the 80/20 Rule. If I heard the 80/20 Rule, 20% of your activities would produce 80% of your results. I told you I got my AARP card. I’m part of the Puff Daddy generations. We got remixed versions on everything. It’s what we do. I said, “What if we have a 70/30 Rule? What if my rule is, I’m giving 70% more then the other person I need to put in 30%?” When I come to the table, I’m coming to outserve my competition. I’m coming out to outserve everyone else. As long as I’m at this 70/30 split, then I’m always going to give them, even if I fail and I’m at 60/40. I’m giving way more than they even anticipated because I’m in it. You said, “Lifetime customer value.” We always say, “We’re in it for the long money, not the short money.”
There’s a bunch of research that was done by a professor out of Cornell. She does research on negotiation styles. We’ve adapted some of the styles to come up with our own terminology around it. When you look at the different styles, 65% of negotiators tend to be more value-taking negotiators. That’s a huge number, heavily influenced by American and Western culture. That style is becoming more pervasive throughout the rest of the world. I’ve been blessed to have done a lot of international negotiations.
When you come across in sales, I especially find it with women in particular who hate this concept of selling. They hate negotiating. They find it combative. They get intimidated by it. It’s always interesting because when I look at my customer base, 100% of my customers are minority women-owned businesses, every one of them. It’s how do we move beyond that? When do you counsel or advise your clients to walk away from a deal? The ultimate leverage is walking away to say no. No is a full stop sentence all by its little self. How do you advise people to think about using no and standing in their power to do that?
When you’re going after the larger deals, there are two things that I will address. Let me answer the question from two views of the world. The first view of the world is those folks who hate selling. You mentioned that most of your clients are women and probably 70% of our audience and those folks we work within our programs are women, which is not uncommon because in personal and professional development, 70% are women. They participate in personal and professional development for obvious reasons. One of the things that I share with them is they didn’t hate sales.
What I’ve found out in my many years is they hate it sounding like someone else when they were going through the process. They hated using scripts. Scripts are for actors. They hated trying to sound like they’re a consulting firm and told them to say these words a certain way. They hated trying to sound like their coach, sound like a woman or sound like a man. They wanted to know their own unique selling style. As a result of that, we created something like you did. We took personalities. We created something called Signature Selling Style.
You’ve heard of Myers-Briggs. You heard of all these other personality tests. What if we had our own test, our own questionnaire where it brings you together saying, “No. These are the seven unique signature selling styles and you fit one of these signatures selling styles. Each signature selling style has its own unique voice.” It has its own way of closing and handling the situation. Now, you can sound like yourself. You can speak like yourself and you can be yourself. You can be natural, transparent and authentic. At the end of the day, you feel good whether you get the deal or walk away. If you’re feeling bad, when you’re leaving the deal, then you’re making the deal about you and the deal is not about you.
You can’t feel anyway. Thoughts are things and things can be changed. This is not a mindset conversation. Mindset is what you tell yourself every freaking day. You can look in the mirror until you’re blue in the face, “I’m a great negotiator,” and nothing happens. It’s the psychology, which is your actions. What we try to teach people and I’m getting to your question, is understand at least, one, your signature selling style, because you might be the professor’s signature selling style and you’re negotiating. You like to teach them something and then a call to action. You could put the intuitive selling style where you like to use your gut intuition.
Some of you sound like me. I’m the heart-center selling style. Emotions have to be connected in there someway somehow. You talked about that. Some folks got the Tony Robbins style, I would say or the Eric Thomas style and that’s the rock star. It’s charisma. They like you. They love you. It’s the likeability factor. “People do business with people they like.” No, that’s the old way. Let me give you the Che Brown remixed version. People buy benefits. They got to like you. You have a pleasing personality, I get it but they buy the benefits you’re promising to deliver to the table that adds value to what they’re doing.
You can be caught up into charisma all you want all day long and that does work but that may not take you to the levels, depths, places and spaces you’re trying to take your organization. Now, you’re making it all about you. You’re not making a culture, you’re not making it about a sales team. You’re like, “It’s me.” That’s fine. To answer your question, “How do you walk away from the deal?” You have to step back and look at your own methodology. When you have a methodology, your team sticks with you. When you have a methodology and things look shaky, they understand where you’re going.
When you have a methodology, which is a process in place or a system, it makes it easier. What I always share is, no deal, no problem. I get that revenue pressure there sometimes. When was a large deal or maybe the largest deal you had, or you finally got that well on the wells there, and you’re going back and forth emotionally? Some of my clients, but one client, could shift the whole year. One client could change the trajectory of their business because one client coming in means they can now go hire resources that they need to execute the contract even if the margins are smaller.
Jim Rohn is no longer with us. He always says, “Profit over wages.” I understand that. What I always share is, “No deal, no problem.” The reason that most of my clients get nervous, sweat, upset, stomachs, I’ve been there. We all get it when there’s the deal on the table is that they don’t have enough qualified folks that we would call in the pipeline. People who have interest want our desire to do business with them. I didn’t say they’re on your list. I didn’t say you call them. They’re your friends. They have interests, want or desire to work with you and they’re willing to do something to change their situation.
When that happens, then the possibilities are larger. When you were at 1, 2 deals, you’re like, “I’ve got to make this work because if I get this money or if I get this deal in, then so-and-so will see I’m good.” No. You only have two jobs as an entrepreneur every day, other than negotiating the sales, obviously. I’m coming back to you, Christine, but I want you to know this because the analogy I use is Michael Jordan. I watched the interview with Michael Jordan. I’m a Kobe Bryant fanatic, as you can see. I don’t have Michael Jordan hanging in my freaking house now. I’ve got Kobe and the greatest over there.
One of the things I watched is a conversation with Michael Jordan and they asked him, how did he end up being the greatest? This will relate to you in sales and negotiations. Even if you hate basketball, you’ll get this. Michael Jordan won six world championships. Don’t worry about that. He’s MVP multiple times. He is considered the greatest of his generation. The person said, “How’d you get there?” He said, “I played in 81 regular season games, 25 playoff games and my job every night was just to do two things. It’s to play basketball games at the highest level possible so my team could win. When I wasn’t playing basketball games at the highest level possible, my job was to be practicing so I can play my games at the highest level possible.” “Che, how does that relate to me as the entrepreneur? How does it relate to me trying to negotiate, ‘Che, bring that thing to me. Land that plane down?’” Here’s what I would tell you, your job as an entrepreneur before you negotiate is only to do two things every day. You don’t get two things to do. Number one, talk to people who have a problem that you can solve and negotiate the deal. In negotiations, Christine, you’ve got me convinced it’s in everything you do, but that’s your number one job.
Talk to people every day. I don’t care if it’s through videos, on the website, on the master class, on the phone, or if you’re face-to-face with a mask on these days or if you’re wearing a mask and being safe, depending on when you see this. That’s it. Your second job every day is to find someone with a problem. That’s all your activities. When they’re chasing something, that’s your point, how about telling them to walk away? Understand no deal, no problem. That’s my core philosophy. “Che, I’m going to get it.” There’s always someone else out there. The list of people who need your services that don’t even know you exist on a planet is much longer than those people you’ve got in your database now. We’re going to find someone else out there that has a problem. We’ll tell them that we’ll solve it and we’ll start the process over. That’s a methodology. I know I keep coming back to a methodology, but in whatever you do, when you have a methodology, it allows you to anchor down and work inside of your philosophies to take it to the next level.
I love that because one of the things that we talk about a lot is you have to have options. Even though I love doing what I affectionately call David and Goliath negotiations because I’ve negotiated with many multinational, big and huge companies. I know how they buy and I know how they sell. They’re fun. They’re complex, they’re intriguing. For the majority of smaller business owners that I know, I wouldn’t recommend that they do business with a Goliath organization. To your comment with Jim Rohn, those companies cost you profit because they are expensive to service. They’re needy and they whine like crazy about everything. They drive strategy. They increase your operating expenses. For many people, it is not the right decision to be doing business with a Fortune 100 company when you have five employees. It depends but a lot of times, that’s not the case because the contracts are obnoxious.
The person who manages, normally are smart. Their whole job is to get the best deal for Goliath.
It’s interesting. One of the people we interviewed on the show is a gentleman named Scott O’Neil, and you will appreciate this. He is the CEO of Harris Blitzer Sports & Entertainment, which owns the New Jersey Devils, but more importantly to you the Philadelphia 76ers. We went to business school together. He’s a fantastic guy. It was a great interview. I appreciate him being on the show. They just started a new program called Buy Black. What they did is they looked across their supplier base and found that the same suppliers were winning their business all the time. They brought in people from the black community and said, “How do we fix this? What do we need to do differently?”
What they needed to do differently was have different metrics delivery, times, pricing requirements and all different things to allow a smaller minority-owned business to be successful when competing with a larger organization. To our readers, if you’re a small business owner, find those bigger organizations who have a passion and a purpose in reflecting the communities in which they serve. Those businesses give you an opportunity to negotiate in a different way without having to sacrifice your profit the way that some of these other companies do. Always be careful with that.
No deal, no problem. Share on XThat’s very important. Folks end up negotiating on price. It’s not about the price, but they’re sacrificing and it’s no longer true. I was telling someone else, again, it’s another Che Brown remix version. It’s no longer true that you have to show all these great people you work with to try to get a deal anymore. Back in the day in the ’80s or ’90s, when you were out there and you were competing, “I’ve worked with Coca-Cola before. I was a subcontractor. I wasn’t a prime on this deal over here, but I worked with this company here.” Let’s call it past performance. You would try to bring that in. Now, in the space of the internet, revenue is moving with speed. Money moves with speed. In many cases, you can have a team of folks that’s part of your team that brings into experience, although the company itself just got going. I get it.
You’ve got to be in the show. You can do the work. You’ve got to have the capacity. I’m not crazy over here. In many cases, you don’t always have that. You have to sacrifice and they will be a lost leader over here. The 76ers, they’re doing some good work. The Minority Supplier Development Council, which is a large organization, does great work. I know that all these folks are doing great work, but you don’t have to say, “I’m going to go here and be a loss leader and give up all this money, time and resources,” which slows you down from being in your niche market that can not only be more profitable, but it can have more impact.
That’s when negotiators come in. This is why people like Christine is so important with Venn Negotiation. Sometimes you need someone like her to come in and maybe evaluate not only the deal but go back to your core philosophy and what it is the company is looking to grow. Sometimes when people are going after those deals, it’s because something came up. They’ve got someone chasing contracts online. I understand how the business development people write contracts and all that. I get that. That’s a good model, but something came up, and it can be a big win and like, “We say we work with the government, and we’ve got a three-year deal. Who cares if we lose money on it?” No. You will care at some point.
You’re right. They’ll think about the price. They get so fixated on price but I often say that price typically should be an output of a negotiation, not an input. All the things that you have to do to meet a certain price component are the things and that’s how you drive price. I’ve worked in the sales departments. A lot of my sales guys would come and they’d like, “We’ve already agreed to price.” I’m like, “You haven’t shown me a contract yet.” They’re like, “They’re sending it over.” A big company will send over the contract and it’s like, “The operational things that we have to do. We’ll have insurance. That’s going to cost us $90,000 a year on $100,000 deal. I don’t think so.” That price component can’t be agreed to until you understand all the aspects they’re going to go into influencing it so that you make sure you’re recovering price when you can.
Those are the two parts you say why negotiation is so important and we do have a failure of doing that, especially in sales sometimes. We’re trying to get them to agree that we’re the right company and depending on who you negotiate with, these purchasing managers and other folks, they’re good. It’s not like this is the first-year student, not a graduate student who just got the job and now they’re responsible for so much money. My son works at Washington Hospital Center. My son is 31 years old. He’s been out of school for 6 to 7 years. He has the responsibility of hiring contractors, but those aren’t the big deals. Even he will admit that sometimes he’s pushing and trying to get the best price because he looks better with the company.
These are folks who’ve been with them. It’s not about age, but many of you are dealing with folks that have been personally managing for a career. This is a side thing of what he does is part of being in the process. He’s been promoted again. It’s not about him, but the point I want to make is, and you said it, you’ve got to bring the value to the table. The manager’s job is to the gatekeeper shop. Their job in many cases, depending on the methodology or the philosophy of that organization, is to get the best price possible so that they keep more money in their coffers.
They’ve got a budget and the budget was $100,000, and they can spend something $50,000 to get what they need. The $50,000 back in the backend. There may still be a bonus kick-out. It’s not about that. What you’re saying is so important. The point I want to make, if you’re reading, you say, “What is Che trying to tell me?” They’re good. Purchasing managers, the frontline workers, they’re good. Don’t sacrifice your business for a deal that potentially could be unprofitable. That’s why negotiation is so important and having someone like Christine and Venn Negotiation as part of your team.
Sometimes we don’t see that until we get the contract and when we get the contract, you’re like, “I’m not good at reading contracts. That’s not my job.” They look at it like, “You don’t want this,” because if something goes wrong, you’re going to be more in the hole. I had that happen where I had to pay money. We were doing for a network marketing company and we have a sales team and that’s our gig. Our gig is we provide sales teams that we build sales teams. This is about a couple of years ago. We entered into a deal to make calls, to try to identify people who wanted to travel.
It didn’t matter what it was, but the bottom line is we weren’t able to hit some of the measurements. As a result, I didn’t understand that they got another 30 days and no costs because we don’t have the measurements. We then agree to try again versus giving the money back. It’s like, “You’re right. We’ve got to get it right but I still got the costs for the next 30 days. We didn’t get it right the first time because we didn’t understand all of the factors in there.” “Why do I have to give you a refund?” It was like, “We’ll just try it again.”
That’s a good point. I was talking to somebody one day. They do video marketing and are good at doing Facebook advertising and stuff. He was having an issue with one of his clients where something had gone wrong. They weren’t able to deliver the way that they normally would. He’s like, “We don’t want to do a refund.” I said, “There are so many other things that you could do that are not refund-driven.” Get creative in terms of how else can you service that customer without doing a refund and still negotiate and come out more effectively and come out of that situation in a better place.
It goes to what you said to the heart of negotiating and taking deals on and so forth. We’ve done some things that just haven’t worked. The reason I’m here is that I didn’t just watch some YouTube video. As my son is able to watch YouTube videos and go cook something these days. I didn’t just watch some YouTube video and say, “This is what they told me.” I didn’t read the latest business book that was on The New York Times and say, “This is what they’re saying.” All those principles are applied, but I’m also sharing with you that I’m like many of you that are reading.
Thanks for reading, by the way. Thanks for giving us your time. We appreciate that. Myself and Christine, what reason I agreed to be here with us that we’re still in the trenches. I’ve still got my sleeves rolled up. I’m still on the phone with entrepreneurs or business owners like you every single day. I’m out there talking to their team. I’m there working through contracts. It gives me a different perspective. It makes me better than anyone else or smarter, but I can tell you what’s going on in real time. I will tell you that what Christine is telling you is spot on.
Focus on value, selling equals service, understand what they want in many cases. Understand you may have to give more, depending on the circumstances you’re in, then you’re getting the first time around but it doesn’t mean it has to be unprofitable. Working with a client and they were a nonprofit organization and they’re trying the same thing and negotiate deals. I was like, “Sell and try to bring people in. Nonprofit don’t mean no profit.” Most of the nonprofits make some pretty God darn good money.
When you’re selling and trying to get deals or trying to get people to service and give you things, that is a form of negotiation. I never thought about until, “I will be on Christine shows. It was like negotiating.” They were like, “What is that?” I’ve got to negotiate, but it’s still selling at the end of the day. They go hand in hand. As a matter of fact, I’ve got to remind you. There might be someone I did refer you to. They’re negotiating to try to get things from folks. They said, “We don’t want to get to.” No. Nonprofit don’t mean any profit. You can get the money and the service, you can do both. It’s not an either/or, it’s an and/both conversation.
That’s a good point. One of the other things in all my years because I’ve been doing negotiation now for many years and people talk a lot right now about abundance versus scarcity. One of the things that I have observed over all these years of negotiating is how many people negotiate from a position of scarcity, which is why we get this win, lose mentality. Like I said, it’s not that it’s a win-win, but that a deal is fair and equitable. I suppose one could say that’s a win-win. That comes when we start thinking about negotiating in abundance. I understand sometimes we are negotiating for something and somebody is going to lose more than the other.
I get that I, too, am divorced. There is definite loss that I went through. I was negotiating that. I wished that I could have done that differently to a certain extent. Generally speaking, for most business people, there’s research out of the University of Copenhagen that shows that when we’re negotiating for something, let’s call it 100. There’s 142 amount of value. There’s 42% more value in most negotiations than we think that there is. We get so myopically focused on something that we don’t see what the possibilities are. How do you help your clients see that bigger possibility? They know they’re selling X or Y, but how do you get them to see that X plus Y equals something greater than Z?
Let me tell you about a client of mine who does promotional products. We’ll talk about how you see X versus Z because that’s a very important part. One of the pieces they found themselves was negotiating or trying to get people to agree to a price point. Most of the products, the more you get, the less it’s supposed to be. There are many factors involved in there. One thing that I share with them and I’ll share with you, and this is most of what we’re talking about here, for most of you were talking about 70% and folks getting new business.
There are two types of negotiation, and this client’s case, I want to be very clear and frame the conversation. The first case they’re going after new business. You negotiate differently because if it’s repeat business. It’s the 2nd, 3rd or 4th time we’re signing a contract. If somebody I’m like, “You’re trying to win your first 2 or 3 big deals. You’re bringing in new people that aren’t already in the shop.” That’s my focus for the most part on this conversation. This person was like, “You finally got a hook on the fish.” This was in 2019. I guess it is a long time compared to where we are these days but you’re going there on the fence and they’re frustrated.
People buy benefits. Share on XThey’re like, “How do I bring this client in?” I reminded him a little bit about why people buy. This is another golden nugget for you. It’s been often said in sales and negotiation that people buy you. I don’t think that’s the case anymore. I’ve got to give it a Che Brown remix version, is people buy the benefits you say you’re going to deliver. What I share with him and as we were going through this and this is very important, is that forget all the five different benefits. The fifth benefit we talked about was called the benefit of the benefit. Let me give you the backstory and then I’ll tell you what I share with this client. This will probably create a breakthrough for you.
I love that Christine has this format because I can share a story and I can give you a golden nugget. Don’t you love that? Hang in there. I’m so glad you’re here. The best is still yet to come. Here’s what the benefit is. I’ll give it my way. When I first started, Christine, I used to sell sales training. The benefit of hiring our company is that you got sales training, although no one wanted any freaking sales training. I’ll be moved to the next benefit. The benefit is where you get sales training. What’s the next benefit? I said, “What a benefit of work with us is you make more money. Who doesn’t want more money?”
I will scream to the top of my lungs. I then figured out nobody wanted any money. This is the answer to Christine’s question. “Che, the benefit of working with your company is I improve my selling skills. The benefit of improving your selling skills is you make more money. Those are tangible benefits.” The cash is in the bank account. The contracts are in the vault. What’s the benefit of making more money? Here’s what I learned. It was the benefit of the benefit of the benefit. It was what the money would do for them. Give them peace of mind, send their kids to a school of their choice. It would do so many other things. I had to get focused on the benefit of the benefit.
This is what you’re talking about, the third level of benefit. This is what I told this person, “When you go to them, don’t focus on the price. Don’t focus on all the fancy stuff they’re going to get. Focus on the benefit of the benefit of the benefit. They’re going to have peace of mind.” Number two, they made a wise decision. They’re going to look good in front of their boss, their manager and everyone else. Third, they’re doing some good in the community. They’re bringing in someone fresh, someone new, new ideas, and that inherently are benefits over and beyond everything else.
That’s what it’s called sales. We started stacking the benefit of the benefit. To her point, she said, “There are 100 over here, but there are other 42.” Normally those intangibles or tangibles that people didn’t think about as a result, the person got the deal. Did they make a gazillion dollars in profit? No. They raise thin margins. It can’t be perfect. We don’t have Christine around. She can’t be freaking perfect. You think I’ve got a perfect story to share with you, but here’s what you can walk away with. Whether you’re selling promotional products, consulting services, technology products, whether you’re out there selling coaching or personal, professional development, it doesn’t matter. The principle is still there.
You must sell the benefit of the benefit. “Why, Che?” It’s because people buy the benefits you say you can deliver that is only going to help them. You’ve got to help them see that. When you do that, your conversations will be shorter. You won’t be talking about price, you’ll be negotiating, which is what Christine was talking about over here. You’ll be negotiating all the other things they want in a contract from a service perspective, service delivery. We want somebody to do something. You know how that works. Is it not a good feeling to know you’re there and you’re at least working towards a deal, which is in most cases even more important?
What I love about that is it recognizes that at the end of the day, negotiation is inherently personal. It is about what the individual needs and wants. We make those decisions based on what’s motivating us. A lot of people in negotiation go, “It’s not personal.” I’m like, “The hell it isn’t. It is absolutely personal.” When you are selling and when you’re negotiating and that all just comes down to influencing. You’re influencing people to take action in a different way.
It’s as personal as possibly you’re going to get. You’re spot on, which is why at the end of the day, it’s very important. You said this in the beginning that you know what you’re going to say, when you’re going to say it, and why are you going to say it? I said it and I come back to it, “Your words will make you rich.” One of the things that we share with some of our sales teams and this may be applicable to you because I want to make sure you always get some golden nuggets, some things you can do. You don’t need to read a book. If you didn’t listen, you may never find me again in your life. This could help you.
It’s a lifetime benefit of you being here now. When you’re in there and you’re at this level, you’re negotiating big deals or you’re starting a conversation, in your language pattern, you might go ahead and mention, “We’re not the cheapest deal out there and we’re not the most expensive, but we’re freaking competitive packed with loads of value over and beyond our competition.” You want to do what’s called a pre-frame and the pre-frame is when you let the person know upfront. It goes back to your methodology and being ready to walk away from deals.
They said, “We’re looking for the cheapest price possible.” “This might not be the right conversation for me.” We’re not the low-cost provider. You can go to Google and find out who’s the low-cost provider and maybe they can provide you a low-cost, but here’s where they can’t beat us at. You want to turn the conversation around and you want to future pace. With future-pacing, we tell the person what’s going to happen before they get there and say, “Let me tell you what they can’t beat us at.” That’s where you go to your strips and this, do-overs and reworks or whatever it may be.
You might say, “We’re going to save you time. We’re going to say peace of mind. You won’t have to put four people assigned to it. You don’t have to worry about quality control,” or whatever. All the things that Christine talked about negotiating a deal, that’s pulled off the table, but at least they know upfront. “We’re not the cheapest. That’s not our model, and we’re not the most expensive, but we got darn competitive with more value than anyone else out there, we believe. Here’s why.” Have the conversation. They’re not trying to say, “How can I get the best price?” “That’s not even a conversation. I’m probably the wrong person to talk to.”
Most people don’t buy on price. It’s very rare. Unless you’re doing a closed bid situation with the US government or something. Price is certainly a contributing factor to win. It’s most often not the number one reason that somebody buys on.
Science will show that most folks will buy something more expensive than the cheapest price out there. You can go look at all the data. “What kind of car do you drive?” “It wasn’t the cheapest car you could go find.” “What’s the house you’re in?” “It’s not the cheapest house you could find.” Every day people make decisions based on what’s most important to them based on their values, mission, goals and objectives. I love, Christine, how you start off by saying with one organization, “This is their mission.” This is the mission you’re on. If you can fit into that mission, then you have an opportunity that may not have been there before. Shout out to the Philadelphia 76ers and all those folks out there, shout out to Philadelphia. They are doing some cool things out in Philadelphia. I love what Philadelphia is doing so.
Che, this has been amazing. First, I know you have something to give our audience, so I’m excited about that, and how can people find you?
The number one way for people to find me is I would say, just send me a text. Here’s what I’m going to do because everyone’s not going to do it. I’m going to give you a number with very specific instructions. You can text the word VENN and when you text the word VENN to this number, which is (202) 270-1662 and that’s my number, I’m going to send this over to Lauren. When you text the word VENN, here’s what you’re going to get. One, I’m going to send you my account. I’m on Instagram. You follow me. I follow you back. It’s the best place to follow me. You know me and Christine talk and learn our view of the world, but I like to know who you are and what you’re doing out there.
Another way for me to do that is to find you on social media. I can’t find you unless you find me first because I can’t see you. You can see me, but I can’t see you. We’re not going to stop connecting on Instagram, but you can find me on Instagram, @IAmCheBrown. I’m going to make sure also we have something called the four minutes sales makeover. I’m doing a three-part series. It’s totally amazing for those folks that want to say, “What do I need to do to makeover my sales?” if you like doing all the sales. For others out there, one of my favorite ways to connect that I’m loving now is we’re doing something called Build Your Sales Team Challenge. It’s five words. My marketing team got to do a better job at that, but BuildYourSalesTeamChallenge.com. It’s no cost and you get there, follow instructions, opt-in.
I’m going to do another five-part series on how to build your sales team. It teaches some of the principles that I talked about here. If you’re someone like, “Che, I’m tired of doing all the sales. Che, when I stopped the sales, stop. Che, I’m tired of running appointments for folks who aren’t qualified.” Now is your time to build your sales team. I have the toughest job, hardest prospects in the world. Entrepreneurs need to understand they need revenue to purchase resources and execute the vision they have for the people they would call to serve. The only way to get the revenue is to serve someone. The only way to do that is either you do it, or you have a sales team. Of all the teams you have, I promise you, your sales team would be one of the best investments you’ve ever made. Go to BuildYourSalesTeamChallenge.com. It’s free. It’s no cost. I’m giving the best I have. Join me for five days. It will change your life. If not, go back and watch the videos. Some of you will do that. That’s the short answer. That’s my gift.
Thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it. To all the readers, thank you for joining us. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode, where we are changing the nature of negotiation. Thanks, everyone. Have a great day.
Important Links:
- Mr. Che Brown – LinkedIn
- Getting to Yes
- Getting Past No
- @IAmCheBrown – Instagram
- BuildYourSalesTeamChallenge.com
- www.SalesClubPro.com
- www.4MinuteSalesMakeover.com
- https://www.Facebook.com/groups/ComebackChampionNation/
- https://www.YouTube.com/channel/UCzGOThIy2z5KxPA2kI3hwVQ?view_as=subscriber
- https://Twitter.com/CheBrownSales
About Che Brown
Che Brown is a globally renowned giant in the sales world. He has cracked the once elusive code of entrepreneurial success with a game-changing model that unlocks unlimited financial potential, power and wealth. In just six short years, he has dominated the sales space, coaching thousands of rising business leaders to achieve exponential growth and success in their industries, to the tune of over $400 million and counting.
His acclaimed 7-Figure Sales Team concept has forever erased the outdated notion that generating revenue in business is a sole-source game – instead illustrating it is indeed a team sport. Che lives, breathes and sleeps his craft. He has his fingers on the pulse of profit generation and an instinctual insight into why the heart of a flailing business has stopped.
Most importantly, he can resuscitate the flow of revenue in any company with just a whiteboard and a conversation. Che Brown is the Creator of Sales Team Guru (www.SalesTeamGuru.com), Host of the #1 Business Development and Late Night Show In The Country: The Happy Entrepreneur Show (www.HappyEntrepreneurShow.com), and Founder of Champion Nation (www.ComebackChampionSummit.com)